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Steve Bennett
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Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:44 pm

Good solution and yes, barge boards would be the right term, well this side of the atlantic anyway :)

Would that be Andy Duncans chickens by any chance, just so happens I got some a few weeks ago, thinking they would be ideal for G scale, they would be pretty large for the O scale they are intended for.
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Postby Sir Briand » Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:49 pm

Come to think of it they are some of Andy's work. Paid him a visit a number of years ago. Lives in a semi-detached council house, workshop in the attic reached by a drop down ladder if memory serves me right and the casting machine was in the potting shed at the back of the garden. :roll:
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Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:06 pm

Yup, thats Andy, his setup is still the same as far as I know.
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Postby Sir Briand » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:43 am

Well, it is the end of a successful weekend :D .

762 was the final count for the layout tour :roll:

The roof problem has been solved and all I have to do is tile it and add the little details. :cry:

Image

Image

All the effort was certainly well worth it.
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Postby Sir Briand » Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:34 pm

Image

A long way to go but at least it is a start :roll: .
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Postby Christoph » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:23 pm

Sir Briand wrote:A long way ...


but a good way :wink: :D

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Postby Steve Bennett » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:34 pm

Sir Briand wrote:A long way to go but at least it is a start :roll: .


:lol: yes quite a way to go, but off to a good start. I'm having trouble working it out from the photo Brian, are those individual tiles, or are you doing them in strips :?:
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Postby Sir Briand » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:12 pm

They are actually individual tiles. The stock I was using did not take kindly to being worked as a strip. As far as width and overlap go they are based on tile size given by Chris Pilton in "Cottage Modelling for Pendon" and are based on Vale of White Horse ancient hand made samples. These were 5/8 inches thick and mine are too thick scaling out at just over an inch. Some Bristol board I have is too thin. If I stuck 2 sheets together it would be correct but.....:roll: .

Off to the local art shop tomorrow to see if I can find something approprate. As the roofing is so much "in your face" I think it will pay off getting it right. Tiles are surprisingly small being 6 - 8 inches wide with about the same amount of face showing. Slates seem to be wider, and therefore probably easier to model. I want a red roof though as grey I think would be too overpowering.
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Postby michael » Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:31 am

Brian I did the same thing with the slate from Mayang's site , I printed 2 sets and using the cambells's method of sticking down paper shingles, cut each of the printed sheets and layered them one over the other 2 rows at a time alternating from one sheet to the next.

Image

This is the result.

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Postby Sir Briand » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:17 am

That looks great Michael.

Trouble was I could not find a suitable red tile there to use for myself.

Elaborate SVP on the Cambell method. Merci.

(For the benefit of foreigners this is meant to be a bilingual country :roll: )
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Postby michael » Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:30 am

Hello Brian
The Cambell method is as follows and if there are any HO modellers on the forum they wil correct me if I am wrong.
Basically the HO kit manufacturer Cambell Models used a coil of brown paper that was two shingles wide with the lower shingles having a little slot of paper removed to mark the space between one shingle and the next.

This coil was unrolled and glued to a substrate of the modellers choice. and the next row was glued above it so that the shingles layered one above the next, in the same way that slate tiles overlap.

Image

The roof that i showed in the previous post was done in the same way but with the printed tile.

I could have colored the tile like this
Image

I hope this helps.

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Postby Giles B » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:08 am

Further to the Campbell method of slate/tile production - I produced strips of slate some years ago (so no pictures) using a Stanley knife fitted with two blades. This nicks out a gap between individual slates. It was arguably a bit overscale in 4mm/ft, but should be fine for Gn15.
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Postby DCRfan » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:49 am

I photocopied this page on the weekend from a 1921 US publication, Material Handling Cyclopaedia. I can't help thinking some of the loads would suit a layout of this style and Midge.

I particularly like the crane frame in the top right and is that a load of Black Dog printies precariously ballanced 3rd down on the left :?: :lol:

Image
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Postby Steve Bennett » Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:21 am

DCRfan wrote:I photocopied this page on the weekend from a 1921 US publication, Material Handling Cyclopaedia. I can't help thinking some of the loads would suit a layout of this style and Midge.

I particularly like the crane frame in the top right and is that a load of Black Dog printies precariously ballanced 3rd down on the left :?: :lol:


:lol: Looks like it could be :)
Great picture Paul, way to many ideas can come from machines like these though :)
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Postby Sir Briand » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:51 pm

Paul, that's a pretty interesting collection of loads and buggies you got there. :lol:

Michael, I used that method for the slate roofs on Knotts Wharf, and there was lots of that. :) Most of the images for this are on disc. All I found on my drive showing slates was this. :roll:

Image

My problem is "thickness". The stuff I had was either too thick or too thin. I must say what you have used looks about the right thickness of tile.
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Postby michael » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:05 pm

Brian that roof looks great, the paper I used is 90lb all rag neutral ph drawing paper, brand name is Meridian Drawing, the pad I purchased has 40 sheets 11 x14 cost was $26 a couple of years ago.

Staples also sell a 90lb watercolor with 15 sheets by Bienfang 11" x 15" for $8.

The 90lb paper is .010" thick.

http://www.pentalic.com/html/artistpads.html

here is a website it looks like they have spruced up the cover of the pad as mine is plain grey.

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Postby Sir Briand » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:17 pm

After some searching around I decided to use some Bristol Board. The total thickness of 12 pieces of the sample I got measure at 0.5 inches from which I make each one to be 0.5 1:24 scale inches. Just what the Doctor ordered.:D

Set up a spreadsheet at 10 x 5 mm spacings and ran a couple of 8 x 11 inch pieces through the laser. Great. Tried the third piece and the old thing choked. :cry: To preserve the beast, and prevent the wrath of good wife falling on my head, I think I had better print off on paper and stick on the board for any more.:oops:

Image

The gridlines can just be seen. The large knife has a thick blade with a good V edge so the cuts are "wide" and show up nicely. The other blade cuts too fine a line and the cuts don't really show.

Image

The Pendon book says the rows were often uneven in spacing. I should, of course, have started on the back part of the roof to practice getting a perhaps more subtle variation But, the front was nearest. :roll: I have been using Elmers Glue-All for all the foam- and card-board work. This seems to tack much faster than white glue and is water soluble so it is easy to get off fingers. :lol:

Image

Edges trimmed down. As there aren't any tile roofs handy in the area - tar paper shingles being the common roof denominator - I have to rely on my library. Another essential reference for stuff like this is a book by P.R Wickham "Modelled Architecture" that I have had since 1948 :D

Image

The end result after a bit of a spray with red primer. Now all I have is about another 12 sheets to cut and lay :roll:.
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Postby michael » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:06 am

Looks good Brian, reminds me of the terra cotta tiles that seemed common in the suburbs of West London(Southhall) when I was in England in the mid fifties.

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Postby Steve Bennett » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:13 am

OK, you have inspired me Brian, I'm going to set some time aside over the easter weekend to replace the temporary rooves on my little traverser layout, which have been on there for far too long :)

I use the same method for tiled rooves. The uneven spacing is not really needed, as no matter how careful you are, you will get variations anyway. Another trick is to just take the odd corner off, just a few, you dont need more than three or four on each section of roof, to add a little variety, more and it starts to look a bit contrived.

On the subject of glues, it is possible to get different results from using different types of glue. For a nice flat roof, a PVA/Whte glue with resin in it, will not wet the card and will give a flatter finish. If you want a roof, which sags in the middle, using a thinner glue which soaks into the card, will cause it to sag and with a bit of weight added while it dries, you can depict a very old roof. I learned that one the hard way :)
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Postby Sir Briand » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:23 pm

Thanks guys. Glad to have inspired you Steve :roll: . I had already nicked a few tiles and it does make a subtle difference to the look. That's the artist coming out in us :wink: .

Finished off the one side last night. Not very satisfied with it but discovered that I could turn the roof around so it is now at the back :D .

Now for the rest of the roofing.
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Postby Sir Briand » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:24 am

Well, decided to start again with the big roof as there were too many problems with it and make a new one. Got the strip tiling done and added bargeboards, evestroughs and things. Spayed the whole lot with red primer and added some green where necessary. Looked dead so decided to try a bit of weathering. Improved by getting rid of the uniform colour. Still not too happy so may repaint one day. As the whole thing lifts off this won't be too difficult.

Image

As sprayed with red primer.

Image

With some black wash treatment.

Image

Overall look.

By way of a break, I decide to tart up the wall a bit :D .

Image

Found some little wooden beads at the local art store. Must grow some ivy on the wall to cover the blotched area. :cry:

I can tell you I am not looking forward to doing the other roof surfaces :roll: .

Putting the cmaera away I just noticed that the White Balance setting was wrong which is why the images are so lousy colour wise. Way past bedtime so will let them be.
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Postby Steve Bennett » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:30 am

Sir Briand wrote:Well, decided to start again with the big roof as there were too many problems with it and make a new one. Got the strip tiling done and added bargeboards, evestroughs and things. Spayed the whole lot with red primer and added some green where necessary. Looked dead so decided to try a bit of weathering. Improved by getting rid of the uniform colour. Still not too happy so may repaint one day. As the whole thing lifts off this won't be too difficult.


Looks fine in the photo's Brian. Although the rooves are the most obvious part of a layout like this and at a show will probably be the first thing most people see, they dont want to hold the attention, but to act as a frame to draw the eye into the rest of the layout. From what I can see, they should be perfect like this.
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Postby Insanity prawn boy » Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:49 pm

I love the colour of the roof- very subtle, just like the prototype. A black wash really helps to bring the detail out too. The beads on top of wall give a 'upper class' look to the scene, perfect! :)
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Postby Sir Briand » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:33 pm

Insanity prawn boy wrote:I love the colour of the roof- very subtle, just like the prototype. A black wash really helps to bring the detail out too. The beads on top of wall give a 'upper class' look to the scene, perfect! :)


Thanks Chris.

Image

The roof actually ends up a bit darker when the image is correctly exposed but there are subtle variations in the colouring which I think saves it. I used a black wash to begin with and then brushed over some fine black weathering powder. So I guess I had better fix this with some Dullcote spray.

One of the hazards of exhibiting is always the possibility of having to carry the layout into the hall from outside in the rain. Arches had four corner "posts" that bolted on which were handy as handles when the layout had to be taken out of the house and carried on its side. An old shower curtain was duct taped into a cover that slipped over these and kept the rain out. Might have to do something like this for Upton. All that inkjet brickpaper won't take kindly to 1:1 rain :cry: .

It is the funny little things that seem to set the scene. The fancy work on the wall, as you correctly state, moved it from an ordinary wall to something posher and subtly sets the whole scene. At the each gable end, on the tall roof, there is an O scale signal finial set in upside down to further this architectural excess idea. Decided not to stick them up as the castings are WM and life expectancy would have been short :( .

That girt big expanse of brick above the windows on the end walls call out for something but I haven't come up with a good idea yet. I had thought of a large circular window but the circle of surrounding brickwork needed put me off.

One week to the First "Narrow Gauge Madness Narrow Gauge Show" up in the hometown of Sir Crouton so the pressure builds. :roll:
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Postby Gerry Bullock » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:03 pm

Sir Briand wrote:
One of the hazards of exhibiting is always the possibility of having to carry the layout into the hall from outside in the rain. Arches had four corner "posts" that bolted on which were handy as handles when the layout had to be taken out of the house and carried on its side. An old shower curtain was duct taped into a cover that slipped over these and kept the rain out. Might have to do something like this for Upton. All that inkjet brickpaper won't take kindly to 1:1 rain :cry: .

:roll:


Looks fine and dandy Brian.
On the subject of rain, which isn't unusual this side of pond, many UK Show layouts after completion then have a custom made box constructed that fits neatly over the layout sides thus covering scenery and ensuring no damage in transit. Our Club uses Ali angle and thin ply to make the boxes, think there's a free supply of Ali :lol:
La Salinera was originally constructed to bolt together with MDF end plates so that the two halves of the layout faced each other preventing damage to track in transit. The minimal scenery was added after assy at show.
In its new guise as a Slovenian Salt Pan with substantial structures (6 in all) we plan to see if buildings can be bolted/adhered to baseboards then use the end plate method for transport. The size of the Salt Pan house (seen here: http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=868) will probably necessitate it being a loose item. Alternative will be the box approach - fortunately its first outing July1/2 only requires it to be moved around 2/3 miles. Therefore even two trips aren't prohibitive if we haven't solved the transport aspects.
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