A new start...

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dr5euss
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A new start...

Postby dr5euss » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:29 pm

As I think I posted, we've moved house recently and the layout I was going to take to Telford just doesn't work in the new house - it's in two sections and I can store neither, let alone put them up somewhere.

I've always fancied doing this style of layout, so I've designed this one for a shadow box type display. Trackplan is an oval and loop, but I may add a single track Gnine line above...I'm not sure yet.

The size is 4' x 2', and it's 21" high so it can be stored on it's side in a wardrobe in the spare room whilst not in use.

I've decided to splash out on a Tortoise slow motion point motor for the point at the front, and I'm going to wire it so it will hopefully never fail; this will be one of the (if not the) last layouts I make and I want it to last.

Pictures!

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It's taken two (full) day's works to get to this stage, but I'm a bit stuck now because I need to support the chicken wire around the two tunnel portals somehow :?

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Postby More_Cats_Than_Sense » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:06 pm

Looks a good start George :D
I know you'll get an idea about how to do the next bit of the scenery, it's almost like telepathy :wink:
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Postby Steve Bennett » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:20 pm

Looks an ambitious project George.
I would have thought that getting the track down, running and tested, would make more sense than worrying about the tunnel mouths at this stage. Until then, you wont really know the final position of the tunnels, but thats just the way I would approach it :wink: .
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chris stockdale
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Re: A new start...

Postby chris stockdale » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:15 pm

dr5euss wrote: this will be one of the (if not the) last layouts I make




Excuse me, but :lol: :lol: :lol:




OK, now that is out of my system I can draw breath and say - nice design, looking forward to further development.


best

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Postby Gerry Bullock » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:21 pm

You beat me to it Chris; of course George may just be planning to join a Monastic Order. :twisted: :lol: :lol:
He's obviuosly not going down the Vicar route as they are renowned for their model railways. :wink:
So little time, so many ideas!!!!! GerryB.
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Postby Glen A » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:39 pm

Great start George,

Plenty of scope for some fantastic scenery there!

I don't know what you want the tunnel mouths to look like, but I would get an off cut of mdf (which I think you have used for you facia board anyway), and I would cut a tunnel mouth that is generously large.
When you are finished laying the track, you can glue a smaller plate with the correct side tunnel hole on the front.

Like you, I do scenery first, because
A); you can make a much mess as you like without getting the track dirty.
B); the scenery does get completed, rather than just getting the track down, running trains and never completing it, which I have been guilty of in the past :lol: :lol:

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Postby dr5euss » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:27 pm

That's exactly why I do it the way I do it, Glen :D

I've been papier mache-ing the lower sections whilst I ponder the upper bit, but I think I have the crux of that now so I just need to try it and see how it works out.

The master at work :wink:

Image

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Barry suggested that I coat both sides of the chicken wire whilst they are still wet, so I've been doing that too:

Image

It's not strong at the moment, but another layer or two and it should be fine. I like the way you can build it up as much as you like (or have the time or patience for) and the fact it's so lightweight and cheap.

I also like the contours the chicken wire gives. It's so much more natural than trying to make it look natural when you carve a lump of foam; you just staple the chicken wire on once you have your trackbed and fascia, and it gives an instant contour 8)

I found some steel wool today so I'm trying something I read about elsewhere. Mmmmmmm.......

Image

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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:36 pm

dr5euss wrote:I've been papier mache-ing the lower sections whilst I ponder the upper bit,


Paper mache-ing with old newspapers does carry the danger of being rather distracting, "Oh, I don't remember seeing that article . . ."
:lol:
At least for me.
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Postby dr5euss » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:54 pm

Haha, yes, I keep finding interesting little bits...after I've cut them up, so it's more annoying than anything :wink:

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Postby More_Cats_Than_Sense » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:59 pm

Looking good George, the contours start to show themselves as the first layer goes on :D

A note to add to why I suggested to George to add a layer of paper mache to the underside of the chicken wire why it is still wet (some might already have guessed why :wink: )
Adding the underside layer helps to prevent the upper layer from separating from the chicken wire as the layout flexes and moves with temperature changes and handling, as the underside layer bonds to the upper layer sandwiching the chicken wire between them :D

I didn't think of this, it was suggested to me following a problem with a layout I built years ago (which I had to rebuild part of the scenery because of that problem :roll: )
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Postby dr5euss » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:03 pm

It's too hot :cry:

All the same, I've been out in the head, a working on the layout. You can see the supports for the rear hillock that will hide the access hatch (sounds better than hole) in the backscene, and also one of the tunnel portals. I'll do what Glenn suggested and clad the front to make it a better size once I know what's what.

Image

I think this'll work, I won't know until I've put the chicken wire on.

Anonymous

Very slow motors

Postby Anonymous » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:17 pm

The world is a happier place with tortoise motors. But, ah yes, boys, I remember when times woz 'ard (the crowd starts to edge away). It was when beer was 5d a pint and you could get a good night out with a woman for 5/- (the edging becomes rapidly dispersing).In the late '40s and 50's we used to make VERY slow motion switches onthe Lazy S principle. It would be a long strip of metal with a slightly angled slot cut along most of its length. There woulsd be a captive nut that a pin attached. A long piece of threaded rod would be turned by an ordinary ex MOD miniature electric motor. Perhaps 6" of travel would produce a very slow sideways movement - ended with a home-made micro-switch.

It took up a lot of space but worked well. In the intervening years I have revisited the technique once or twice, as a way out of a particular problem.

Ah yes.. those were the days (...where's everybody gone?)

Bestest

Peter

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Postby Willow Creek Traction » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:27 pm

dr5euss wrote:All the same, I've been out in the head, . . .


That's okay, a lot of people say that about Gn15 modelers generally: "I tell ya, mate, once he got in to that Gn15 stuff, 'e's been a wee bit out in 'is head ever since!"

And the Gn15'er smiles and says, "Isn't it cool! Care to join us? Plenty of room." while actually thinking to himself, "poor, ignorant, misdirected chaps, if they could only see.".

Which is funny as that's exactly what the standard gauge gang is thinking about him!

Ah well, some day they'll see.

In the meantime, looking good!, carry on George, carry on!
later, Forrest Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -- Nikola Tesla, July, 1934

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Postby dr5euss » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:38 pm

Cor, it's nearly built :shock:

I got the chicken wire around the tunnel portal finished now, just the other end to do and that'll complete the chicken wire.

Image

Image

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Postby Blackcloud Railways » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:45 pm

By heck George, you don't hang about do you? I like the idea of building the scenery before laying the track - sort of doing it the prototypical way - but have you tested the clearances before getting too much solid scenery in the way? :shock:

I'm sure you have and it's just us old codgers that are stick in the mud traditionalists! The next question has to be - How far are you taking the scenic work before tracklaying? Will it look like a real railway under construction, or maybe a dismantled railway, when you've got all the rockwork finished but no tracks?

That would make an extremely good photo opportunity, not to be missed. :wink:

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Postby dr5euss » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:09 pm

Hi Bob,

Check clearances....errr...no....not yet...but I'm confident everything will work because I'm suing Sidelines size and not Southpass size ;)

I thought I'd just get all the papier mache done before the trackwork is laid (got the rails bent already). I'm thinking of covering the whole layout in FRocks, but this might create issues with the fascia because the chicken wire is level with the fascia at the moment, and adding a layer of foam rock would make it exceed the fascia level.

It's also become apparent there's not an awful lot of room for buildings :?

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Postby Glen A » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:30 pm

dr5euss wrote:I'm thinking of covering the whole layout in FRocks, but this might create issues with the fascia because the chicken wire is level with the fascia at the moment


George, If you are going to do FRocks, you could have saved yourself some work, and not used wire or paper mache.
All you need is a flat base to start with (either top or bottom). They support each other as you build, (like a brick wall). To get good FRocks they need to be quite thick (about 30-50mm thick), so there is plenty at the back for the glue to hold to.

In the case of your track at the front, you can start the first layer by gluing the top of the frock to the underside of your track base, and build downwards. You just need to clamp each layer until the glue dries :wink:

This is actually the way I built my cliff at the weekend (top down), until I ran out of frocks :cry:

edit:
I just found this photo of eariler work showing building from the top down, with clamps holding a piece while the glue dries:
Image

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Postby dr5euss » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:40 pm

Interesting stuff Glen, guess I should've asked first and saved myself the hastle :?

I don't know though...I'd like to do sifted soil (did this on a previous layout) but some of the ground is so steep, I don't think it'd look right.

The other option is to just thwack plaster onto the chicken wire, but then I worry about it flaking off.

Hmmmmmmmmm :?

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Postby SOUTHPASS » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:11 pm

Good morning....George, I avoid plaster like the plague :) . It's just too heavy and fragile for a portable unit, the only time I use plaster is sometimes it's mixed with latex/arylic paint to make a filler. Where you have used paper I have used old cotton sheets torn into squares. don't cut, torn edges blend in easier :D ....John.
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Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:28 pm

dr5euss wrote:The other option is to just thwack plaster onto the chicken wire, but then I worry about it flaking off.

Hmmmmmmmmm :?


Why not stick with papier mache for the rocks George, it will bond well with the base, is lightweight, flexible and thin. You can even use rock moulds like the ones from Woodland Scenics for the actual rock faces. I have some pics posted here somewhere of some rock castings done that way, but can I find them :roll: . Maybe I will just take some more photos tomorrow, its probably quicker :lol: .
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Postby dr5euss » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:37 pm

Hey John, good to hear from you again :D

Steve, I remember the thread well actually, I bet it's in the "2007 model challenge" one, but at 13 pages I haven't quite got the nerve for that now :)

http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=2021

Edit...nope, trudged through all of it and no sign of it. New pics when you can would be good, please, Steve :D

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Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:47 pm

I thought that aswell George, but no, it wasnt :roll:
Found it though
http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?p=24652#24652
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Postby dr5euss » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:59 pm

Aha :D

It does look good...although I wonder how many times I can use a WS mould without giving the game away that it's just repeating. At least with plaster or FRocks there isn't this issue, but if I wanted to do an outcropping, this would work well.

Whilst you're here, Steve (if you are, I think I'm just off...) do you know of a way to paint chinchilla dust and cat litter? Whichever way I decide for the rockwork, I'll still need some talus and general dust, but, no offence, I don't want my layout to look like a repeat of your demo layout, so if I could give it a yellower hue then I think I'd feel better with myself :)

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Postby Steve Bennett » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:07 pm

You should find it will colour up with thin washes of paint George. You want to stain it rather than paint it though, so very thin washes work best. I have used Burnt Sienna on some before to give a red sandstone type finish and it worked really well.

Edit :oops: should have said, the staining was done after it was stuck down on the layout with dilute PVA.
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Postby dr5euss » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:12 pm

I know I said I was going, but I'm addicted :roll:

OK, I'll go to the pet shop tomorrow and get the stuff I need. I wonder if I could do the whole layout in chinchilla dust and cat litter - there are no rocky outcroppy type things on BDM and it works just fine. It'd still make for a light base too - I'd only need to PVA the papier mache and sprinkle away.


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