amoured train 15'' romney hyde

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dana
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amoured train 15'' romney hyde

Postby dana » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:34 pm

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Postby Bob Taylor » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:48 pm

A long time ago I'm sure there was a piece in Railway Modeller about this beast. Can't recall for definite but I'm pretty sure it ran on 9mm track.

It was said, of the real one, its operational practicality lacked somewhat but as a symbolic gesture I'm sure it won many over.

Make a good model though.


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Postby Simon Andrews » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:48 pm

Nice picture 8) Just out of interest does anyone know what that is mounted next to the Boyes anti-tank rifle :?:

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Postby Rockley Bottom » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:29 am

One has a magazine on top ,I think and could be Bren a gun and is the one like a drain pipe a Lewis gun :?:

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Postby DCRfan » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:43 am

On each armoured wagon, the ring mount had a Boyes anti-tank rifle and a Lewis machine gun. At the other end there was a Lewis machine gun on an anti-aircraft pintle mount.

Graham Lindley told me the Boyes was later replaced by a Bofors anti-tank gun (not the 40mm anti-aircraft gun I had previous read about) however I have not been able to confim/deny this or identify exactly what Bofors product he was referring to :?
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Postby Rockley Bottom » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:36 am

I saw this one in the Narrow Gauge Railways by Humphrey Household. The credit says "the armoured train; Hercules encased in steel plates with former Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway all steel bogie wagons (imperial war museum)

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This may help with the guns :twisted: :twisted:

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Postby dana » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:39 am

heres some info for identifying the guns on train

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle,_Ant ... 5_in,_Boys

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors_40_mm_gun
(hotchkiss guns )
http://bronzecannon.net/



(for other defense)
http://www.pillboxesuk.co.uk/ ( hey your estate maybe just coming backinto service after the war)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy_fWmKMSSA(bofors news reel pathe)
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Postby MickT » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:52 pm

Regarding the queries about the ordnance in the RHDR armoured train photo - the one that "looks like a drainpipe" is a .303 Lewis gun - the thick barrel is the water cooling jacket around the rifle barrel. These were WW1 section level light machine guns that were replaced during WW2 by the much better Czech designed Bren LMG, but they were kept in service due to exigencies of war and were often used with shoulder mounts on a tripod as light anti-aircraft weapons. They were available with either drum magazines or could be belt-fed. Their main problem was that they were very complicated, suffered from overheating on sustained fire and often seized - not very confidence building when used in defence! The larger weapon with the box magazine on top is a Boys, or Boyes .5 inch calibre anti-tank rifle. These were often fitted to light universal carriers (misnamed Bren carriers by Airfix!) and were used by the BEF in France. Not very effective although the solid shot could penetrate the thinner armour of scout cars, Pzkw 1 and II etc. They were shoulder-supported in the same way as a standard infantry rifle would be and were reputed to have such a vicious kick that they caused almost as many casualties to the home team as they did to the enemy! They worked on single-shot and the magazine carried just 5 rounds I think, although all this is from the top of my head as even with my 46 years service to Queen and Country, I don't remember them first hand and I would stand corrected on any of it if someone who knows better emerges!
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Postby MickT » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:58 pm

:oops:
:oops:

I should have checked Dana's Wikipedia link above before committing to waffle as both the Boys description and a link to the Lewis gun through "British infantry weapons of WW2" gave very full, comprehensive and as far as I can see, accurate descriptions. Much better than my top-of-the-head attempt anyway, but I was suitably relieved to discover that most of what I said was indeed correct!

:D
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Postby Simon Andrews » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:19 pm

Thanks all, I recognised the Boyes but had not seen a Lewis gun from the dangerous end.

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Postby dana » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:59 am

would a bill-ben be the ideal basis for the amoured loco :?: i realize a bit of more work needs to be done but the loco would be a start :roll:
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Postby Simon Andrews » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:15 am

Dana,

I think but may be wrong, that Hercules was a pacific not an 0-4-0. However, I agree it may be a good starting point for a "in the style of" armoured train with 4w hoppers instead of bogie stock? I seem to remember the was an article in an edition of the Tome.

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Last edited by Simon Andrews on Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Oztrainz » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:27 am

Hi Dana,
There is no direct "Thomas" lookalike The loco under the armour was "Hercules". It was a 4-8-2.
See
http://www.rhdr.org.uk/rhdr/engines/05.html

Maybe Bachman's US Mountain
See http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/catalog/?function=detail&id=256 Maybe oversize, but it has at least got the right number of wheels under the loco, The tender would need to be shortened as well.

Probably you could get away wth a "Gordon" 4-6-2 if you hide it under the armour. :wink:
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Postby dana » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:36 am

a bit of work on the mountin to make it a cprail style pacific

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/i ... grams2.jpg

my crude version through paintshopImage
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Postby Jim Snee » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:08 pm

The bofors antitank rifle was the 20mm cannon M/40 (which would fit on mountings available), sometimes referred to as a Madsen gun.

There is a picture here: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Bofors.htm

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CPR Pacific

Postby ChrisMears » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:28 pm

I realize this is way off this thread, but there was mention of suitable starts for a CPR Pacific.

I immiediately thought of the IHC Pacific. It's fairly close right out of the box. From their website, here's the Milwaukee Road version:

Image

Now back to the thread... :)
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Postby Jon Randall » Mon May 19, 2008 7:20 pm

Having had a ride at the RHD last weekend I can add a few bits of info.

Bob Taylor wrote:
Can't recall for definite but I'm pretty sure it ran on 9mm track

In the RHD exhibition at New Romney there is a model in a glass display case which looks like 9mm gauge, could be the same one. Unfortunately due to the glass I couldn't get a decent pictre..
I did however get a snap of the 15" gauge model under wraps at New Romney
Image
The previous weekend was a 1940's event so it was probably on display then. At least we gnow know it exists :!:
my guess is that it is made out of plywood, I can't see them rebuilding a real loco.
Outside of the Hythe station there is an infomation board. The best photo I could get was
Image

I also read that the Lewis guns were replaced with Bren guns later during WW2.
Hercules and the 2 bogie wagons were kept continuously under steam and when not touring the line (which was also used to transport troops) they were kept in a false hill built on a siding.
A further note was that both Hercules and Samson were both built to transport freight trains on the RHD.
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Postby Panda » Mon May 19, 2008 8:00 pm

Gun firing gunutters coff coff :twisted: :lol: :twisted: Who will be the first to model it?
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Postby DCRfan » Tue May 20, 2008 6:00 am

mogbass01 wrote:Gun firing gunutters coff coff :twisted: :lol: :twisted: Who will be the first to model it?


I have gone as far as 1:24 scale drawings. Do you realise just how big the loco and two bogie wagons are :shock: Probably longer than some of the mini layouts on this group.
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Postby Oztrainz » Tue May 20, 2008 7:51 am

Hi PJ, A little bit of gnot so ancient history...
Paul is being a little modest here and has gone closest to modelling something like it here:
http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=3536

My On30 effort and the inspirations are here:
http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=3519

It is fun revisiting history - especially when it is noisy :!: :!:
Gneed more KABOOM :!: :twisted:
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Postby DCRfan » Tue May 20, 2008 8:17 am

Jon Randall wrote:I did however get a snap of the 15" gauge model under wraps at New Romney

I also read that the Lewis guns were replaced with Bren guns later during WW2.
Hercules and the 2 bogie wagons were kept continuously under steam and when not touring the line (which was also used to transport troops) they were kept in a false hill built on a siding.


That is a very frustrating picture. I'd really love to see what was under the wraps.

Bren guns replacing the Lewis guns. That is a new on on me but makes sense. They probably had the large 100 round drum magazines. I have been told the Boyes were replaced by Bofors but I don't gnow what sort.

A train coming out of a false hill - the mind boggles and the whole idea gets more interesting :P
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Postby chris krupa » Tue May 20, 2008 8:22 am

Hills on Romney Marsh are even more mind boggling!

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Postby DCRfan » Tue May 20, 2008 8:47 am

The first website has a picture of the Hythe sound mirror. The second website explains the link with the RH&DR

http://www.ajg41.clara.co.uk/mirrors/hythe.html
http://www.southdown-amateur-radio-society.org.uk/HTML/Soundmirrors.html
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Postby Jon Randall » Tue May 20, 2008 4:45 pm

Not far from the RHD station at Romney Sands there are three different sound mirrors (the only place in Britain where all three designs are located). However they are located on an island in a gravel pit so you can only visit them on special occasions.
See the Romney Marsh Countryside Project website here
ECHOES FROM THE SKY
A rare opportunity to visit the Sounds Mirrors of Lade Pit. The walk will be led by Dr Scarth, the world's expert on sound mirrors, who will tell the fascinating story behind them. Meeting point is at 2pm in Lade car park on Coast Drive (approximately half way between the Pilot Pub and Romney Sands) (TR 085 208). It is free of charge but donations are appreciated. No booking is required.


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Postby Peter » Tue May 20, 2008 5:08 pm

Amazing stuff!
I'd never heard of acoustic mirrors before this thread.

edit, perhaps this Japanesse design is more Gn15ish. :shock:
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